Brian Poppe (00:12)
Welcome to Tech Talk, a podcast sponsored by Mutual of Omaha, where we talk about all things technology. I'm Brian Poppe, and I'm joined today in the studio by my co-host
Courtney Van Hoosen (00:23)
Courtney Van Hoosen. Yes, it's my first time in the studio. Brian, I think you've been in here before, though, right?
Brian Poppe (00:27)
Yeah, I think actually there was one episode of Tech Talk where I was like, in the office and I needed a podcast, like recording spot, so I snuck in here. No producer. Just me and a laptop. It wasn't quite as nice as it is today, but yeah. Yeah, I'm a frequent guest here, I suppose. I'd love to office out of here because the lights are great. I appreciate the microphone and the headphones.
Courtney Van Hoosen (00:48)
Oh, yes, I know it looks great if you're on Teams calls or everything.
Brian Poppe (00:51)
Yeah. You look so professional.
Courtney Van Hoosen (00:52)
Exactly, exactly. And I know we're in our current headquarters, but next year we're hopefully going to be moving into our new building. And I hear (you'll be excited about this, Brian), we'll have like 2 or 3 podcast studios in the new building.
Brian Poppe (01:04)
As long as we've got the giant logo and the tiles, because the tiles really make this room, I'm going to be happy, I think.
Brian Poppe (01:11)
All right. We're joined today by a guest, Nichole Black. Nicole, how are you?
Nichole Black (01:15)
I'm great. How are you today?
Brian Poppe (01:17)
Doing great. Welcome to the podcast studio.
Nichole Black (01:20)
Thank you. This is my first time here.
Brian Poppe (01:22)
I feel like that might be a lie. Given what I know your past job was.
Brian Poppe (01:25)
So, speaking of, why don't you talk us through your journey to technology, where you started here at Mutual of Omaha and how you eventually got there?
Nichole Black (01:33)
Well, I first started as a security guard. I worked both the night shift and the day shift. So I had the opportunity to see what it was like to have none of the lights on. Kind of spooky! But after I went from night shift, I went to the day shift. And during that time, I was working on my cybersecurity degree. And when I started the degree, I really liked the idea of ethical hacking. Kind of similar with physical security. You want to try and get into things, you know, make sure they're secure, no one else can get into. And thankfully, I was able to graduate with my bachelor's earlier this year, and currently I'm working on my masters. It was a very interesting transition going from physical to cybersecurity. It was a difficult challenge because, you know, you're checking doors, you're checking to see if there's any fire hazards. And now I am checking to see if passwords are, you know, if they're weak or strong, to see if I have developers, you know, if they need to fix any of their code or anything like that. So, it was a big transition.
Brian Poppe (03:05)
Yeah. Suppose there's some like, physical element that obviously you're like, now you're chained to a desk all day rather than having to like wander around. But I don't know. There's probably something to the, like, you're still checking to make sure that things are secure, operating as intended.
Nichole Black (03:19)
Even now, in my cyber security role, when I come into the office, I actually do keep an eye out for potential weaknesses or ways that an intruder could come in and, you know, cause chaos and try and get our, our information. So with physical security and cybersecurity going hand in hand, I really thought it'd be a really fun adventure to try and get my footing in the door and see what else there was.
Courtney Van Hoosen (03:54)
Yeah. And congratulations on your education journey to definitely another lifelong learner. So congrats, I love that. You talked a little bit about how the job is similar from physical to application security in terms of protecting things. What skills or experiences did you take from your previous roles that you have brought into your current role in Application Security that you think have helped you?
Nichole Black (04:22)
From physical security, as well as an application security, you check everything. You check all the back doors, front doors, you have to see, kind of think of it as like a bank heist. See where the bad guys, how they can, you know, try and get in, find unusual ways that they can try and find vulnerabilities. So, you know, you have on campus, you have the perimeter, you have the front doors, the back doors. You have to check everything. Similarly, you have to make sure that nothing is on fire. Nothing can cause a fire. It's a very interesting thought process when, you're comparing the two because you would assume that they would have nothing to do with each other, but in fact, they go hand in hand.
Brian Poppe (05:16)
Yeah. I suppose you probably really can't turn that off of, like, once you learn how to do it, it's just become second nature.
Nichole Black (05:20)
That's right. I always joke with my old team that, if there is a potential fire, go the opposite direction from me, because I probably have the fire extinguisher and going through the flames.
Brian Poppe (05:38)
All right, well, tell us about the transition between the two roles. And maybe you could talk a little bit about, like, team dynamics on the physical security team and then on the application security team and how they might be the same or different.
Nichole Black (05:50)
It was a very interesting transition. They have never had this type of transition or, you know, job opportunity transitions before.
Brian Poppe (06:03)
Yeah, certainly the first I've heard of it.
Nichole Black (06:05)
Yes. So, I applied for an internship and because that has never happened, it was a weird, it was a weird process because I already had an account I was already in. That was interesting.
Brian Poppe (06:25)
I hadn't even thought about that. Like, they didn't have that. They didn't have to set you up with, like, a new user ID or log in, right? You're like, oh, I already got that.
Nichole Black (06:31)
It was also pretty interesting because I didn't get like the original orientation videos or trainings or anything like that.
Brian Poppe (06:38)
There's no reason to do a tour like, “I've been all the places you haven't even been yet.”
Courtney Van Hoosen (06:43)
Yeah, you could give the tour instead.
Nichole Black (06:44)
We can do that right after this. I'll show you the falcons.
Brian Poppe (06:51)
Yeah. Lovely. Can't wait to see them birds.
Nichole Black (06:53)
I would say for the team dynamics; I love the physical security team. I see them all the time. When I applied for my internship, I cried my eyes out. I was scared to leave. I was scared to say goodbye. We had a pizza party, though, so it wasn’t a bad goodbye. However, I do, when I come into the office, I have to see them. I have to give hugs. And, usually it's a before a meeting. So I have to usually end up coming in an hour, before the meeting just to say hi and see everyone. Now, comparing that to my application security team, it's much smaller. Physical security, there's about 20 people, while on the application team there's four. So I do have to have a little bit more on my back and a little bit more, you know, responsibilities, and different, you know, types of, you know, things I got to do compared from you know, physical security. I don't have to physically check doors anymore, but I do have to check applications. But the team dynamics, it is basically the same. I've made such great connections with my current team. And I feel just as comfortable, happy and secure in my current position as I did in my, you know, previous role.
Courtney Van Hoosen (08:31)
That is so awesome to hear, Nicole. And I think that really speaks to the culture that we have here at Mutual of Omaha overall. I want to talk about October Cybersecurity Awareness Month. I don't know if this is like the big fiesta that you all have on your team, but, I'm going to ask you to do a little bit of myth busting here. So October is Cybersecurity awareness month. What is a myth that people commonly think about the work that you do that you can bust for us today?
Nichole Black (08:58)
I would say one myth that I would love to bust is that we are the bad guys. Both physical security and application security. As physical security, I would have to remind everyone to wear their badge, you know, kinda “shoot the messenger.” But I always want to help people find, you know, what room they're at, find them, you know, what the best food is around town. I just always want to help make sure everyone is having a good day. And comparing that to application security. Same thing. I test, developers applications. And although we can be seen as the bad guys because we find, you know, the bugs, some of the issues and, vulnerabilities that need to be remediated, I tried to go above and beyond and help them find the codes that they can use to fix those vulnerabilities. I really want to be seen as someone who helps.
Courtney Van Hoosen (10:07)
Yeah. I mean, you're protecting us from the bad guys, so we definitely need those roles for sure.
Brian Poppe (10:12)
Yeah, I think you're on our side, but I don't know. That's interesting that people have seen you that way. All right. Final question. What would you say to someone who's unsure if their current skills will transfer over to a tech role?
Nichole Black (10:26)
Any skill set you have in your current role, I know it would be such a beneficial skill set to have because, physical security and cyber security application security are on the complete opposite sides. But you could still find the positivity and the benefits that can help with both. You know, making sure that the, you know, front end and the back end endpoints are all secure. But if you have a role in, customer service, that is just as important as it is, you know, with checking applications. I'd say if you are interested in cyber security, or application security, you can use programs like Udemy, Pluralsight, and even job shadowing. So if you want any more information to get a further in-depth idea of what I do on a day-to-day basis, you can, you can reach out to me. And I'd be happy to explain that.
Courtney Van Hoosen (11:34)
Well, thank you so much, Nichole. I think your story is a great story of no matter what background you're coming from, there's a lot of transferable skills. You know, tech is always changing, so just being able to make that jump between careers shows that you're able to handle that change. So thank you so much for sharing your story today.
Hopefully we'll get some more people making the jump from physical to application security. But thank you everybody for joining us for our Tech Talk podcast. We'll see you on the next one.